Wartull you don't necessarily need a perp to short. the proposal also doesn't contain the exchanges that they're interested in market making on. there's several exchanges that allow shorting spot on margin

I'm not saying that shorting is bad; by all means efficient markets are better. But there doesn't seem to be a gain in any of these. Olympus is already shelling out nearly 100mil in incentives with Proteus to go cross-chain. What's the point of having liquidity on centralized exchanges if buyers don't gain any benefit of being on-chain, which, once again, is staking, governance, and collateral (e.g. Rari, Abracadabra, etc)

      gsr_nyc

      GSR is by far the most reputable MM for CEX's. With that said, Olympus DAO owns OHM based LP's. With Ohm going on CEX the DAO gains no benefit from LP trading fees. CEX trading of OHM would only allow non (3, 3) holders to speculate, having no direct exposure to protocol growth.

      You are also calling on the DAO to give 25,000 OHM with not even a promise that you will not stake for gOHM or vote in governance decisions. GSR could easily enter a situation with top CEX's where GSR holds gOHM gaining exposure to the protocol growth while lending out OHM to CEX's via traditional lending methods.

      Smart contracts allow for a pure code based agreement between the DAO and GSR (a centralized organization). Without a smart contract the DAO has no real way to make sure we are represented fairly in this negotiation. Therefore it is only fair to both the DAO and GSR that all future agreements be formalized via smart contract logic. Some processes and parts of the agreement would most likely call for a combination of DAO governance, multisig with signers voted on by the DAO, and multisig representation from GSR.

      Risks for Olympus DAO:

      • No fees from CEX liquidity
      • Speculators trading OHM without exposure to protocol growth
      • 25,000 OHM is given to GSR for free
      • GSR staking for gOHM getting (3, 3) rewards and voting in governance never having paid for the OHM!
      • Perpetual contracts open allowing for even more speculators not exposed to protocol growth, having negative impact on price

      Rewards for Olympus DAO:

      • CEX speculation on OHM would spread the message of Olympus DAO and (3, 3)
      • Olympus DAO builds reputation with GSR (if deal goes well)

      Main takeaway: We should be using our DAO and smart contracts to negotiate conditions of deals with MM's and other protocols going forward! It is our greatest strength when negotiating with centralized and decentralized entities.

          KO-XD thank you - this summarizes what i was trying to say (in a much better way)

          we're allowing more speculators to have an impact on price without reaping any benefits from it. Olympus Proteus is already paying a premium to spread across a number of other chains, both EVM and non-EVM. expanding outside of Ethereum already provides access to other ohmies who want to avoid Ethereum gas fees, THAT is exactly the audience that should be targeted, not CEXes

            Zeus

            Ser I agree that it is good that GSR is willing to come use our forum, but we should ask for more. We are in the web 3.0 world and smart contracts allow us to hold centralized parties accountable via codified agreements. Smart contracts are the only way a DAO is capable of holding centralized entities accountable in a contract. Frankly GSR should appreciate such clear terms and it would also bring amazing positive media attention to Olympus if this succeeds. We want to set precedents and play to our strengths to thrive.

              We should not give this loan for free. We should follow OHM way and allow them to buy bond for the same amount with 5-10% discount.

              I'm not so concerned about the "secret staking" angle.
              It's traceable.
              Assuming we have a legal front-end that can actually contract with them on centralized terms, it may be easy enough to hold them to that point of the bargain.

                jft well said, I don't see the need of CEX. It will bring a lot of selling pressure.

                  This adds NO value to olympus. A zero-interest loan? opening arb opportunity? getting into CEX at this stage? what part of this is valuable to ohm

                  gsr_nyc This is totally uncalled for. Listing of CEX is not right. It's a rebasing token and listing it for trading purposes only will bring a lot of sell pressure forcing people who had earlier staked and selling only yields to sell principal and leave. This is a NO. Community take note, this will bring a lot of selling pressure. Anyways, there is a lot of OHM forks once this backfires, many Ohmies will find home in TIME and ROME and those protocols will learn from OHM CEX listing mistake. Some tokens are not meant for CEX. The Proteus cross-chain liquidity is the way to go, whoever wants to get OHM can get it cheaply from AVAX, the only thing the team can do is allow gOHM holders on all chains to be able to vote.

                  *CEX offering staking might curtail the imminent selling pressure a little bit.

                      Zap

                      Ser we are a DAO and have no legal front end. Smart contracts are better forms of agreements, we should use them to hold GSR at penalty if they stake for gOHM.

                          muh9s agree What outcome is this treasury allocation driving? This is so opaque. Lots of objection handling but no justification as to why this is being evaluated in the first place.

                            KO-XD I'm reading between the lines here. Wartull has mentioned a contract. I can only assume that, despite the philosophical aspirations of being a DAO divorced from tradfi and meatspace, there must be some sort of front end potentially at play here. If not now, inevitably for some other reason, imo.

                                davoice321 very thoughtful post, I absolutely agree that getting listed without proper liquidity provisions can be problematic, as it likely fails to create the conditions for investors to confidently enter the market. Our goal would be to make the centralized listings highly investable. The current Olympus community is about 10,000 strong, but the client base of those exchanges is in the millions, there is simply so much potential benefit for the protocol from broader adoption.

                                    EconomistBeard we will use the OHM tokens to populate the offer side of the market but it is our own balance sheet that will be used for the bid side of the market, think of it as GSR putting up the other asset in the Liquidity Pool

                                      If this is approved conceptually, I would like to see the option to repay in ETH removed. The loan should be repaid in stablecoins, to continue to build RFV for minting capacity.

                                      DefiWolf more centralized exchanges will list OHM, this is independent of this conversation. What we are trying to do is make sure that when those listings happen, the market has a tight bid-offer spread and decent size on both sides. Centralized listings are fantastic marketing opportunities, they will help expend your community in unexpected ways, again millions of crypto users that stand to get exposure to the protocol, it is worth doing it right.
                                      I believe the community agrees, because the engagement on this post is amazing!

                                          I'm kind of surprised at the pushback on 'no centralized exchanges'. The point of Ohm is to become a reserve currency. This means it needs liquidity not just in defi but in more proper and popular spaces. The value of Ohm is in its ability to achieve stability through treasury growth and staking. Eventually, CEX's will be able to stake Ohm, either by partnering with Olympus, or figuring out how to swap to sOhm some other way.

                                          This is one of the most bullish and positive things for Ohm rn.

                                            1. Should there be some interest in the repayment option of returning the full 25,000 OHM at the end of 12 months?
                                            2. I also don't understand why a centralized exchange listing would increase DEX volume. Can someone hash out that logic? Is it just the increased visibility of the token driving that?
                                            3. Will there be any additional fees that the DAO needs to incur to get listed on any particular exchange associated with GSR?
                                            4. Is there a list of supported exchanges that GSR will be providing liquidity on?

                                              setting up a use case for tradfi/custodial CEX users with OHM is necessary, and this will bring in more money to keep the protocol expanding. I dont mind the loan, not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things, never was a fan of hardline slippery slope arguments.