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  • OIP Discussion: Wonderland Partnership & Add $TIME in Ohm Treasury

Update: So after some more background knowledge I recall now that Time no longer holds Ohm, so to clarify, this proposal would be to mutually add back OHM into Wonderland's treasury and Olympus to add TIME into ours and then create a dual PoL owned by both Wonderland and Olympus introducing OHM-TIME LP bonds across both AVAX and ETH as well as further incentives and policy framework for collaboration of treasury fund management to create growth together through a dual-treasury DAO2DAO ecosystem.

"Time in OHM" they said, not timing OHM. What if it meant $TIME in OHM?

I know this might be a controversial topic, but hear me out:

The ultimate flywheel effect, both OHM and TIME potentially bottoming out. Two of the biggest ecosystems and protocols in DeFi 2.0, on two of the top chains AVAX and ETH, what could the benefits be from TIME in OHM be? Protocol Owned Liquidity split between two treasuries, both capturing 99% of the fees from trading between the two, and since each treasury holds the other's token, there's a feedback loop/flywheel effect. It's worth it to consider that OHM has WETH in its treasury, and TIME has AVAX, OHM has FRAX/DAI/LUSD, TIME has MIM, both are revenue generating, with MIM arguably dominating the market in the near future, on top of UST being a top farm in the Degen Box, another decentralized stablecoin, and with Spell's protocol fees paid to the stakers. Most importantly, what could we do with a combined dual-asset/protocol ecosystem of a 1.5B treasury do accomplish?

It's time to consider the possibility of what a partnership with TIME could bring, I think it's a worthy topic and debate to be had. I'm not any sort of gigabrain so that's all I can think of, nor can I think of the issues or implications, but I just wanted to spark the discussion and see what the community thinks. TIME already has OHM in its treasury (or at least I think they still do), what happens if we add theirs into ours?

Remember, the goal of OlympusDAO's OHM is to become the global decentralized reserve currency, and with Time, we might strike fear in our greatest competitor, the Federal Reserve and centralized reserve fiat currency.

For the record, I am a loyal OHMie, but I am not trying to be blind by that, and this could be of actual benefit to us, and I only recently got into TIME simply because of the market bottom, and I've always been in OHM and been 3,3 and 9,9 since OHM was just 300M in Mcap, so I never had a chance to get into Wonderland, but what if you didn't have to be in one or the other? What if OHM and TIME were one, just two sides of a coin?

I would like this post to spark a civil debate and discussion about the benefits and concerns of this potential proposal, just so we can pick the brains of some of the 150IQ members of the community, because I'm too dumb to know anything really, what happens if Frog Nation joined forces with the Ohmies?

I also know there's a lot of backstory of bad drama that happened with the team, so it's unfortunate it couldn't work out, because (3,3)3 could've resulted in one of the biggest ecosystems we've ever seen between two titan DAOs.

I don't think we should reward bad actors with core integrations. We actually already tried this with them. That team has shown they do not respect their partners, playing Machiavellian games to get ahead. We've already seen them do it once literally to OHM (they were our first partner) and then again recently they did it to Trader Joe. This proposal is DOA sorry

    el_dan0 Yeah in that case it's just a shame because of what the cooperation together could bring in theory. But of course, teams and trustworthiness matter a lot. You can't deny what their team has done though in pioneering in the space and the massive success they've had though.

      el_dan0 If you can elaborate on what the TIME core dev team have done that would be nice for those of us not as knowledgeable as you are.

          Hi, I want to start staking OHM, but when I want to connect my Wallet with the Address ( QR code) it doesn’t work Because the Address or QR code is not right ?n

          el_dan0 I think let bygones be bygones. Since then TIME figured out what they want to be ie. not the reserve currency of Defi..

          There is no competition between Time and Olympus, different ideologies, different objectives, however most importantly both successful in their own right.

          The two protocols can have a symbiotic relationship. In business you dont have to like or be best friends with your counterparty. As long as the outcome is a WIN-WIN scenario that's all that matters.

          Both sides bring different tools to the table. The reserve currency of Defi surely will need to have MIM in its treasury sooner or later?

          for exemple i would like to hold TIME in our treasury, but I dont think the reserve currency of Defi should be backed by Time, MIM would be great.

          Hence to be able to achieve both the only solution is to have two treasuries: the Olympus Treasury that would hold Time and yield generating assets and the Reserve Currency treasury that would hold stables and whatever else we deem worthy of backing it.

          Should the reserve currency of Defi be a rebasing token?

              Wonderland is centralized, controlled by two individuals. Wonderland requires trust as the two individuals are trading through their personal wallets. Wonderland holds assets that are publicly available and could be assessed and purchased individually without adding indirect exposure to new assets they might acquire. Even the way in which they hold these assets is identical to the way Olympus holds its assets. Wonderland has no clear long-term vision so how do we justify holding it as an asset?

                pottedmeat so what if the eventuality is it will become fully autonomously governed rather than by two individuals? if that's the only concern, then make that one of the terms of the agreement. perhaps one way is to bring one policymaker onboard to theirs and vice versa. we justify holding it by the other decentralized protocols that it brings exposure to i.e. abracadabra and popsicle, revenue generation in general, policy framework can be established to collaborate on the use of treasury funds from both sides together across both chains each one with a dominance in one particular chain (time on avax, ohm on eth), the benefits could be helping ohm onboard gohm on avax further rather than through the antiquated approach of pool2 rented liquidity, while time could gain exposure to eth's liquidity through ohm

                posting one of my replies from discord here for anyone reading on the forums:

                not at all, its more of a WAGMI mentality... looking at it strictly from a value bringing perspective, again i get the bad blood and backstabbery, however u have to consider it was perhaps just survivalship at play or just improper expectations or imbalance of mutual benefit, but now that both are grown big enough things sometimes can be worked out amicably for the greater good of both sides, esp if u are missing the greater point of defi and crypto, the real enemy or target are the bankers and legacy financial system, they want us to stay separated and their biggest fear would be two giants united against them, to take them down there's a real chance that it takes two of the titan DAOs to come together, it would show how powerful crypto and decentralized communities are and the first time ever two DAOs cooperated on this level, it seems like the problem simply stems from a lack of formal agreement from prior partnerships, if it were done right then there shouldnt be any issues and both stand to gain tremendously, even if it is done on a small scale to rebuild trust, a small holdings but a strongly outlined proposal of how to work together and prosper together could start things off. im looking at it from the perspective of what could be played against them, the elites of the global financial system, not us, crypto which is still in its infancy... it reminds me a bit of the btc vs eth debacle, when in reality 99% of us probably hold both and in the end the industry stands to benefit from both's success, what i love about this is that both ohm and wonderland were both completely grassroots, the spirit of decentralization at its best, no vcs involved or allocations from institutions stand to gain from this, just us normies and regular people on the other hand, i get people, relations and politics, and trust are extremely complicated so im not claiming to know any better, i just hope maybe something can be reconsidered or worked out with the people at the top because at the end of the day, both sides have made their mark in history in changing crypto and defi forever...

                  Dom98000 i personally think time is the perfect asset to add to the ohm treasury, so as long as time has ohm in theirs, because it's basically a proxy to the rev generation and treasury of wonderland, which is exposed to decentralized protocols that are highly productive like mim and spell's protocol value (which includes UST running on LUNA), and furthermore, it gives instant exposure to the market liquidity of avax which is one of the top performing chains outside of eth, i wanna stress how it could create the feedback loop of value transfer and liquidity pool growth on both chains, with ohm's 400m+ in liquidity of weth and dai Protocol Owned Liquidity and time's 400m+ of avax and mim PoL, you can create a third LP of which is jointly owned PoL between OHM-TIME LP which generates even further fees…

                      pottedmeat for the same reason it would benefit Time to own gOhm, income.

                      Time is only serving its purpose in dani's ecosystem but why arent we aligning with MIM and abracadabra? probably because of the beef with Dani.

                      I would very much like to borrow mim against my gOhm on Abra

                          Winnal Once again, Wonderland is still a copy/paste wrapper identical to a previous version of Olympus containing assets that could be individually assessed and acquired. Your proposal is a roundabout way of saying that Olympus should acquire the community of Wonderland but Olympus does not acquire assets for their community.

                              pottedmeat no, i very clearly stated it would be mutually owned on both sides, as per the proposal, time would again add ohm to their treasury the same as we add time to ohm's, that's the only way this makes sense and creates the flywheel / feedback loop by introducing ohm-time PoL LP and bonds for both wonderland and olympus

                              or maybe i wasn't clear on that. so to be clear, this proposal is for both ohm to add time and time to add ohm mutually together, and create a shared PoL of ohm-time

                                Dom98000 Olympus doesn't have a treasury for the primary goal of generating income. Olympus has a treasury for the primary goal of trust. Holding TIME does more to undermine trust in OHM as a currency than to build it.

                                  a lot of ongoing discussion happening on discord, however, i would prefer it happened here, so instead im gunna post some of my replies for visibility:

                                  pottedmeat:

                                  You're right that it's not about money-making. I don't know what to tell you. A cornerstone of becoming a reserve currency is trust. And this conversation is, in general, about trust.

                                  my reply:

                                  and trust is also about incentives and alignment, trust that they wont rug themselves to rug us if we have time in our treasury they would have to rug themselves for us to be hurt, the fact of the matter is, they are building a successful treasury and ecosystem growth around very powerful protocols that is sufficiently decentralized (abracadabra and popsicle)

                                  To those in favor of Time, how would you justify Time's premium? OHM could just purchase those assets in Time's treasury without exposure to all the extra risk assumptions and drama.

                                  Market liquidity dominance of the PoL LPs on AVAX, treasury yields and outputs, flywheel effect of OHM-TIME shared PoL bonding, and a monopoly on the limited capacity caldrons of Abra and sSpell protocol rev which only Wonderland has direct exposure to by default without having to purchase it on the market. And the fact that you can't just outright purchase those assets on the market or wouldn't make sense to. It was sold to Wonderland's treasury through their bonding program just like Olympus' assets were through our bonding program. So through TIME we gain proxy exposure to their treasury growth and them ours mutually to create a feedback loop.

                                    Winnal We would also purchase those assets through Bonding or OTC (if we chose to do so).

                                    To make sure I understand. Premium is justified by:

                                    • LP fees from their POL
                                    • Yield from Treasury farming strategies
                                    • Spell fees accrued through Spell owned?

                                    If you run the numbers on those, does that actually justify the premium?

                                        Questions that I think need answered regarding Time:

                                        • What is their vision? What's their goal? That is very unclear to me.
                                        • When will they decentralize?
                                        • When will founders stop trading out of their personal wallets on behalf of Time?
                                        • How would a partnership with Time move Olympus closer to its end goal?

                                        I fear that any deal with Time would move Olympus further from decentralization and even closer toward regulatory pressure.

                                          This seems more about wonderland trying to remain relevant by chaining itself to ohm as we begin our next phase of growth. They can buy ohm as a treasury deposit if they like, but there really aren't any synergies here that benefit ohm. They're simply not 3,3 and we don't really need them to buy ohm either.

                                            JFry4 If you adjust it to the provable treasury growth against the inflation + the RFV, as long as it's sustainable, I would say a 2-3x premium is reasonable. Even OHM is tradable at a similar premium, so at parity, and with the feedback loop and mutual growth you could arguably increase that premium on both ends.

                                            And market timing wise, both OHM and TIME seem to be near market bottom, so it would be the ideal time to strike this partnership.