I 100% support the allocation. Howeever, I do wonder if we might prefer to stake FRAX in Curve directly instead of with Convex. While this would have the obvious downside of having to allocate DAO resources to managing the claiming of CRV rewards and manually boosting the FRAX pool, it would also enable the DAO to participate in CRV governance.

I think we have all seen how beneficial our relationship with Sushi has been in terms of boosted Sushi rewards. If we take the long view, we could pursue a similar relationship with Curve and keep in mind that OHM could eventually be part of a Curve v2 pool like Tricrypto, and it will be beneficial to have a voice in that discussion when the time comes.

Again, I am 100% in favor of allocating FRAX to stake on Curve, but I think its worth considering managing the position ourselves directly instead of through Convex.

    voted no because 100,000 is not worth the trouble and won't move the needle in a meaningful way. would consider 500k or even more worthy

      psq Thanks for the feedback - it is intended as a trial and to ramp up in a cpl of weeks as people become comfortable. We can still also increase this initial amount as a number of people have provided similar feedback on the number being low.

      • psq replied to this.

        Mark11 testing sounds like a good approach, missed that

        Bento Thanks for the feedback - I would say there are a few things which make Convex preferable - 1) Convex is complimentary to Curve we receive CRV rewards from our Convex staking 2) we wouldn't receive Convex rewards with Curve direct which is a big chunk of the apy value and 3) Curve rewards direct with Curve require whitelisting for smart wallets by a Curve governance vote which they have shown resistance to before when things like Convex exist - I tried to explain this in the proposal it is a bit technical but:

        I consider Curve deposit directly is not appropriate because in order for smart contract wallets to receive CRV rewards directly from Curve those wallets have to be whitelisted by a Curve governance vote. Such votes have not been well received by Curve governance where solutions like Convex exist. (For a background of why we would not deposit directly to Curve and pursue our own gauges please see this thread which presented an immovable roadblock to the FRAX protocol from pursuing just that strategy).

        πŸ‘ in favor of putting our treasury assets to work by taking low-risk steps. If you're eventually putting up a vote, might as well gauge here what the community is comfortable with. I think up to 500K FRAX makes sense but would be most comfortable with 330K FRAX.

          unbanksy33 or 333,333 FRAXπŸ™Œ - Alright everyone following further feedback here and via dm I propose the increase the amount when it goes to snapshot to the memeable 330,000

            Mark11 I think 333,333 FRAX would be a better/memeable number that we can market as well.

            Voted yes.

            Unless I'm mistaken, excess Frax is used to mint Staking Rewards. I believe aDAI is still considered part of our Runway as it's just yield bearing DAI at 1%. However, I'm not sure we should considered Convex Staked fraxCrv as part of our Runway. Trading Fees are paid in Frax so you can argue that it extends runway, but those fees are only 0.45% and Convex takes 16% of that in fees so we're left with 0.38% in Frax denominated trading fees. Hardly enough to justify the risks and, in my opinion, not enough to justify being counted towards Excess Reserves. What this misses is the CVX, CRV, and FXS rewards we would receive, but Stakers wouldn't see those benefits directly as they increase Intrinsic Value and not Runway.

            All that said, I would be For this proposal with some modifications. I don't think we should consider any Frax we use for this proposal as part of Excess Reserves, which means we'd be spending our Runway. If people agree with me on that then we should make that clear in this proposal. I also think we should highlight that this would gain us Frax Governance Token FXS, which would give us more of a voice in governance and/or could be staked in Frax to earn further yield.

              JFry4 i agree if convex is getting 16 percent and so we are left with a minuscule percentage of the trading fees. If its possible to talk to convex to have them change it to 15 or 14 that I think would make it more compelling. Not sure if its possible

                Hi jdp630 - Convex's 16% is already accounted for in the quoted numbers in the proposal

                  Mark11 changed the title to OIP-14 - Deploy 333,333 excess treasury FRAX to Convex Finance .

                  JFry4

                  This is a really good take. This could be optically uncomfortable to do (spending runway). The added FXS and therefore voting power in Frax is a nice benefit not to be overlooked, however.

                    Convex is barely three-month old and I don't feel comfortable in depositing FRAX there. The argument that Frax Finance has deposited 72 million into Convex justifies us doing so does not convince me. If an exploit were to happen which resulted in a loss of fund, FRAX might still be able to hold its peg. Frax FInance would incur a loss in this situation, but Olympus wouldn't if we didn't deposit FRAX into Convex in the first place.

                    We saw what happened to the token price and TVL of projects such as Alpha Homora and Alchemix when an exploit occurred. I don't think the risk/reward ratio is justifiable for us to pass this proposal.

                      Hi kschan - yes there is risk with this proposal - it's really about what people are comfortable with. Convex contract is essentially a framing contract distributing rewards - the surface area isn't that large. Having a small amount deposited is a good way to manage the risk posed by it and the CRV stack. On the other hand we carry risk with any asset on the blockchain - Frax could have a collapse and our FRAX would be worth zero - Maker could collapse and our DAI would be worth zero. I am comfortable with the amount and the risk - I fully understand others will not be.

                      Dudemyguy ah I

                      Mark11 ahh I misunderstood (misread a previous post), I thought we would be earning FXS from this, extra Frax is even better. Thank you for the clarification ser!

                      Mark11 huh? We wouldn't be earning FXS? Convex site is wrong?