meditator

This is very common practice. The difference here is that we are super open about it and come with it to the community, others deal with this behind closed doors. Almost all Defi projects have done this in the past

alexk1d
This deal will actually allow us to get a native staking option on their website. OHM will get listed one day anyway, but its either on their terms (the CEX's) or ours

Kazuya1987
See above ser 🙂. I agree with you that it has to be on our terms, which is exactly why this deal will help. If not, exchanges will just list us anyway without us having any control

KO-XD

There are signed legal documents. They have been in the business for 8 years and do 5B of volume on the daily, why would they risk all that for 20 million

Algar

Very likely increase ye

top-5-ohmie

Agreed! Please join the AMA later toda

millunare

This is not some protocol with some anon faces behind it. GSR is a real company with a proven track record (look at the people in the industry vouching for them) that will be held to a legally binding contract.

MrLoop

We always said a CEX listing was for when we were bigger. Right now we are top 50 and 4 billion in market cap, it's an entirely different story and it is consistent with what we have been telling since day 1.

FluctusLux

We will work with the CEX to have staking options, this deal would actually allow us to push heavily for that. The options are v much OOTM so I honestly hope we hit those strikes. We'd be trading at 115B market cap if that happens.

Great to see the participation here of so many ohmies. I appreciate you all for taking the time to write down your thoughts and invite you to the AMA later today in the Discord!

                      EconomistBeard They are greating a great deal and we have every single card in the house.

                        bone Also I’m shocked at those who think there is some principal we are violating by wanting to be on a CEX.

                        Yeah I'm in shock too. Personally would want to see OHM on CEXes because this means that OHM is fulfilling its vision to become a decentralized reserve currency. Contrary to what popular people say, OHM should be accessible to people on CEXes. You can flip the argument on them and tell them that USDC shouldn't be in DeFi because it's a centralized entity, but it is because it's a widely accepted stable coin, plain and simple. Same should be said of OHM.

                        Wartull We will work with the CEX to have staking options, this deal would actually allow us to push heavily for that. The options are v much OOTM so I honestly hope we hit those strikes. We'd be trading at 115B market cap if that happens.

                        I like to see this happening. More people should have access to OHM, regardless of the platform. If not, then what's the point of OHM? On that note, I have 0 idea on who GSR is or what they have done in the past to have any solid argument on the matter, so forgive the ignorance. I'm just looking at the deal as is, without any idea on the underlying implications of the loan, such as that. It would be neat if this is explicitly stated as well, but that's just my opinion.

                            Wartull

                            I'm not saying let's not ever get on a CEX, I am saying let's wait another 3-6 months until our DAO is better adjusted. By then the APY will be <1k, so those who do end up buying on a CEX aren't burned as quickly if they don't understand what's going on yet + we'll have more of a reach across layer 2s/multichains (so I hope) where they can likely take off CEX onto it quickly and not get rekt.. basically we'll be able to come at this from a position of strength. Tell them to come back to us in March when we'll be in a better spot to take advantage of this.. but I know how this story ends.. we get a huge inflow of people who aren't yet ready to understand the nuances of OHM protocol where instead we should be onboarding the other 80% of the market that isn't yet on ETH but understands what a DAO is and are active participants… by the time we soak up the demand, hopefully our DAO is more robust & we could even think of doing this ourselves or negotiate better terms (ie: they actually have some downside here.. it's an absolute freeroll for them where we take ALL the risk)

                                There's something that I don't understand about the argument that GSR would have no skin in the game. Maybe I'm wrong here (and I welcome the correction if so, can never learn enough) but in order to use the OHM in a MM situation GSR would need to pair it with other coins or tokens, and provide the other portion of the LP themselves.

                                From where I sit, that means that they are on the line for impermanent loss. And they also have a loan that they have to either return (or exercise their purchase options) on top of that. How is it that this is considered a freeride? The total sum of assets at risk of IL that they expose in the LP would be the same amount as the total for the loan at the time of issue.

                                So, unless I am missing something, they are essentially risking as much capital as the DAO. This is not a rhetorical statement: If anybody has an explanation of why this is not the case I would love to read it.

                                  KO-XD XD"#p5463 just to be clear, on a DEX the liquidity provider collects trading fees, but the very business model of a CEX is that they collect fees. GSR will not only not collect trading fees, but actually pay transaction fees to the exchange (we do typically have preferential rates from being one of the largest traders in the market, but we still net pay). We take care of those, none of those costs are passed down to OlympusDAO

                                  meditator most other protocols do really, actually I would argue that most pay for it as a lot of centralized exchanges will charge them listing fees. Olympus relied on DeFi and so managed to grow organically, to a point where many exchanges now will want to list you for free, it's a great spot to be at.

                                  Kazuya1987 to be clear OHM is already listed on Gate.io and MEXC to cite 2 centralized exchanges, it just has not benefited as much from those listings due to low volume there. While waiting to increase the DAO could make sense, in the interim those listings might happen regardless, and then you miss on the opportunity they present in terms of marketing and adoption, due to poor liquidity and messaging.
                                  We also want to again highlight that we will use our own balance sheet on the bid, and pay the centralized exchanges' transaction fees. Market Making digital tokens is what we do at GSR, and it is a business, and it is complex, it involves managing your inventory across venues in real time, integrating with different exchange tech, showing tight bids and offers in decent size and around the right price, making sure prices do not diverge between both centralized and decentralized exchanges, being present in the market 95% of the time, 24/7/365, and understanding how your liquidity moves with the overall crypto market and potentially macro market. GSR has almost 200 people spread across the globe, constantly monitoring and adjusting our algorithms and working to provide our clients and partners with the best possible service.
                                  As you can see, we are not just showing up and taking a loan of OHM to do with as we please, we will leverage this loan so once OHM gets on a centralized exchange, the trading experience is reflective of a project of that caliber and ambition.

                                          alexk1d because that's their business model… market makers make money from trading fees/spreads, not appreciation of the underlying security

                                            Very concerned at the amount of aimless positive feedback there is for this policy. This is a broken proposal. Whoever wrote this proposal masking it under a "loan" is incompetent and took one from Jerome Powell's book of reinventing a word's meaning. This is not a loan. We are giving away equity at a negative interest rate AND providing free call options on top of this. The Cex market is something we have not wanted to enter from the beginning and rightfully so as it gives exchanges massive leverage in the DAO. Zeus mentioned that pOhm was one of his biggest regrets because of the leverage it gave single entities….now we want to do this all over again with CEX's. So many holes in the proposal VOTE NO. This is asinine.

                                              Couldn't we simplify this a bit and instead of pricing in the purchase amount 6-12 months from now, just give GSR the option to buy at market value at those dates? It's possible that in 6-12 months the prices they have laid out is higher than market, but it's also possible that they are below market. Seems much more simple to say you have the right to purchase in 6-12 months at current market value, and potentially much more fair both to the upside and low side. I imagine the community would be pretty upset if GSR purchased at an insane discount in 6 months.

                                              melloone I also worry about this. I just don't think it's necessary atm, and I do agree that this certainly appears to be "negative interest rate AND providing free call options on top of this." I don't know enough about centralized market making to know if this is "business as usual," but it seems strange. I proposed that if we do vote "yes," can't we simply have a call option at market value, which would simplify things quite a bit, but perhaps this should be expanded to market value + interest rate accrued over the proposed period. I would not be happy if GSR purchased all of that OHM at a discount to the market.

                                                Wartull

                                                Legal in what jurisdiction? There has been no clarity about who is signing the documents on our end, and what country this deal is taking place in. Operating off of good faith works until it does not work. Future deals taking place like this are poor by design as we are a DAO. You are not giving enough weight to the situation where terms of the deal are broken/unclear to where they are not followed up on(similar to the LOBIS deal). The lack of clarity in this deal reeks with the same lack of clarity provided by LOBIS in where it was not mentioned that the airdrop would only go to those who voted yes for certain proposals. Bitcoin was made in part because agreed upon legal deals failed those involved.

                                                Chauloko

                                                GSR does not have to pair the OHM with any other tokens on a CEX. Most CEX's use a synthetic orderbook where tokens are kept in custody and only moved if a user withdraws their tokens. Fee's on CEX's are determined by the individual CEX and rates vary among MM's.

                                                gsr_nyc

                                                Again with no doubt you guys are one of the best and most reputable MM's in the space, and the reduced trading fees on CEX's is an advantage to having GSR as an MM. The crux of the issue is you guys are asking for 25k OHM in which is value our treasury that could use for token swaps with other DAO's or new ventures via our VC arm. I frankly find it hilarious that this deal has made it this far being that you guys are literally asking for free money to make fees off of and admit it. This benefits GSR receives out of this deal immensely outweigh the benefits Olympus DAO gets. Olympus DAO loses 25k OHM and future opportunity cost, GSR gains 25k OHM and future trading fees generated by your manipulation of the OHM price.

                                                melloone

                                                Agree with this 100%

                                                        Anti-GSR ppl aren’t seeing the value of Olympus getting to set the terms

                                                        We don’t want CEX doing it themselves with gOHM.

                                                        Don’t you see?

                                                          bone I’m baffled at this. Any CEX setting their own terms would be better terms for Ohm then what we are setting ourselves. We are literally paying them to list us when they could market buy and do it themselves at the benefit of the protocol. So ser exactly what is your point here?

                                                          • bone replied to this.

                                                              melloone

                                                              No because CEX using gOHM is very bad for v2. Imagine Binance and Coinbase voting for stuff with users’ funds. Olympus is setting a valuable precedent here.

                                                              25k ohm is tiny. Yea GSR will make profit but it will lead to more onboarding. Charging them interest when they’ve agreed not to stake is ridiculous.

                                                                bone

                                                                Who cares if a CEX buys gOHM on the open market? Just another whale IMO. You seem to not understand the difference between being given something and buying something. Also have you asked any ohmer if they think 25k OHM is a lot or a little OHM yet? Average wallet has about 3-4 total OHM in it…

                                                                • bone replied to this.

                                                                    KO-XD

                                                                    Be sure to listen in on discord:

                                                                    Today we will hold our daily community call at **3pm EST/8pm UTC/9pm CET!** Topics which will be discussed are some organisational changes wrt community management, OIP 54 and the GSR proposal on the forum!

                                                                      Listened in to today's AMA. Thank you for the professionalism and the respect shown to our community. Like Zeus and Wartul said, whether we like it or not, cex listing is incoming. We'd better anticipate and prepare for it in advance. I'm all for this proposal. Olympus has really matured. I'm so excited for our shared future at hohme.

                                                                      While I know the topic of people holding ohm on CEX's receiving staking has been brought up plenty, but I think maybe it hasn't been high lit the amount of hype that that might drive. In defi, 1,000% APY is considered small… having spent time in the crypto subreddit, people are hyped about staking ALGO and getting 5% APY. If we roll in there with a thousand percent? It will literally melt faces.

                                                                      we'd be looking at the insane rewards available in defi, without having to wade through fishy links, scammy dms, seed phrases, sending coins to contract addresses… It would just be people with their FDIC insured custodial wallets clicking 'buy' on our coin, and making 100x the reward of the next highest staking coin. Olympus might have trouble in defi keeping people from chasing high APYs, but we would be a godsend to 50 million? 100 million? more? CeX users that have never heard the word 'fork'. They would buy until there are no more to buy.

                                                                      the first DAO to do this wins.

                                                                      Listened to the AMA. My main concern is keeping governing power out of the hands of CEX and any other kind of centralized authority. This deal can help with that, so I'm cautiously optimistic. Looking forward to the next discussion on this once the details are ironed out.

                                                                      gsr_nyc

                                                                      GSR -- Gate and MECX are shitcoin exchanges and it is irrelevant OHM is listed on there.. no one is going to get burned with that process.

                                                                      I open market bought myself into a top 1% wallet v the firm who is arguing for this being a good thing knowing full well they can't lose (you truly cant lose here let's call a spade a spade).. this is where we stand. I hope people reading this can figure out who might have more incentive alignment with their bags here. I respect that you provide a service, but what I am trying to tell you is it's not needed yet (my 2c, just 1 person in this DAO) and perhaps at a later day.

                                                                      I have conviction and have poured bandwidth/time/money into this DAO (both keeping myself on top of how it works + helping ppl in discord and explaining the nuances of the protocol) your firm isn't even willing to buy in (buy gOHM) with skin in the game to make this happen.. of course not, specifically because it doesnt actually matter how the token performs as your incentives are just fee abritrage and onto the next 1 (and there are hundreds ofc) when it's no longer in your financial incentive to spend anymore time doing this.. mine are aligned with actually building something useful here and I am actually risking significant capital to push the vision forward. And at this stage doing this is just alarm beds ringing in my head. When we vote on this I just ask for an option of revisiting CEX exchanges in the future, I am pro-CEX exchanges, just not before multichain and not before we're much more developed as a DAO.. another 3-6 months minimum IMO