i did some analysis on our 33T Community Pool, and i think we should make an OIP to adjust some ground rules…

comparing the frequent winners with the Anaytics from https://dune.xyz/CyJackX/Olympus-Wallets
i want to make the following suggestion …

Players with more then (open for discussion) 100 / 200 / 500 sOHM should be capped (or not eglible to win with more then 100 / 200 / 500 tickets) from the 33T Pool so that others have a fairer chance to win.

We have round about 2000 Adresses playing 33T atm..

The Players
https://app.pooltogether.com/players/0xeba9acecaeb6118a645fa4106af214c9cf53d46a
https://app.pooltogether.com/players/0x9fd40c33ca13534ba23800544a0a05501a867eb2
won 4 times each … i does kinda feel a bit rigged… espacially if you take into consideration that other 33T depositors had more tickets then those adresses at the time of the draw …

Its nice to see that recently a more 1 sOHM adresses are in the winning pool …
nevertheless … i think some adjustments would benefit the community

EDIT: English isnt my native language…. i want to emphasize this is not about Excluding anybody… its only about the max amount of totterly tickets you can buy …

    I disagree with removing those with more invested. They are risking more, thus have a higher reward.

    If you want to increase the odds for those with less to invest, the fairer proposal would be to allow people to pool their entries and then split the winnings.

    1 whale with 300 tickets = 300 individuals with one ticket each

    The whale gets all their reward because they are putting up all the risk. The pool of individuals share their reward because they are sharing the risk.

    Exclusion under the guise of fairness is rarely fair.

      Thats a fair point oilreg… it would be good to enable people entering with low balances to feel more encouraged…

      oilreg You absolutely are risking something. You are risking your rebase.

      this is supposed to be a discussion anyways ….
      however .. the top3 deposit adresses are the most frequent winners
      https://dune.xyz/CyJackX/Olympus-Wallets
      makes sense cause they have the most tickets…

      all i am saying is this is supposed to be a Community Pool not a Whale Pool …
      … we could find various solutions… like after 3 winning you have to leave the pool
      .. max deposit / tickets 10 / 100 / 200 / 500 … whatever
      … just 1000 deposit doesnt have much to do with Connunity.. a 1000 sOHM make you a 36 sOHM within the 3 Day Prize period of normal staking..
      … in my understanding, Pooltogethers pincipal idea is to have a loss less Lottery … where its possible to have life changing winnings without loosing your deposit… Turbohand so you really think the 1000 33T Whale has a life changing event when he wins 170 sOhm (thats btw. what he would get anyways by just 2 weeks staking his pot) …
      … however… i assume its life changing when a guy staking with 1 33T wins 100 sOHM

        Look the point is defi 2.0 is supposed to be about collaboration and empowering the little guy… so i totally see where you are coming from oilreg… at the moment it looks like some big whales can enter and have a high chance of success simply because the pool of entrants is small… and the more those whales win the more chance they have of winning more… so the pool needs to be promoted more widely and prizes should be more distributed… also how the random winners are picked should be more transparent to encourage new entrants…

        oilreg We can be a community pool.

        • It is none of my business whether winning 170 sOhm is a life changing event for someone. It is also not my place to determine how best they should allocate their assets. Those are their assets to do with as they please. If they would like to forego the income from rebase and operate at a loss, that is their business. They do not need to explain it to me.
        • Asking people to leave after winning is an exclusionary process. When they leave, they will also take their contribution to the prize pool with them. This has a guaranteed negative impact on everyone else in the pool.
        • I have given you a scenario that would address this.

        • I have 50 sOhm and invest in the pool.
        • The remainder of the pool is 50 individuals each investing 1 sOhm.
        • I have a 50% chance of winning.
        • Each of the individuals has a 1% chance of winning.
        • The prize for the pool is 100 sOhm.
        • If the individuals group their entries and enter as a block of 50, then their block has a 50% chance of winning.
        • If I win, I win 100 sOhm. If the block wins, they win 100 sOhm. Each person in the block wins 2 sOhm.
        • This maintains the risk v reward of the pool while also allowing leverage for smaller contributors to win proportional to their risk.
        • This has the added benefit of not being exclusionary.

          Turbohand \

          i am familar with the Pod system Pooltogether has… but thats not what i am talking about here..

          i am talking about exploiting the system if you are a whale… sure there a plenty of arguments why this all would be valid… if the whale goes… he takes all his sOHM from the price pool … having a negative effect… thats sounds like Mercedes saying if i gotta pay tax in your country i ll producce my cars in another country …

          Point being … you are right with all your arguments
          … still he is exploiting the system cause we didnt set some basic ground rules.. so that the community can thrive instead of handful of whales….

          nevertheless this suppposed to be a discussing for getting some brainstorming ideas on what the best approach would be … afterall Olympus is a DAO … and once we figured whats agreeable for people which can put up a vote.

            oilreg You haven't illustrated that there is malice or exploitation.

            Communities cannot grow with exclusionary behaviors.

            The fairest system would be that only you are allowed to enter the 33T and then you would always be able to win and it would always be a life changing event for you. However, that wouldn't be much fun given the exclusion of everyone else.

            its not a exclusion when you say max tickets allowed 10/ 50 / 100 / 200 f.e.
            … besides that… we would appreciate if you contribute meaningful suggestions for some 33T adjustments, rather then just pointing out that you are against changes… you made that already clear.

              ok @Turbohand no need cast aspersions 😉

              I believe what @oilreg is suggesting is that there should be a cap on the number of tokens that people can enter - this would stop people with big balances from dominating the odds… its not 'exclusionary' if the same rules would apply to all… I believe this approach has merit and would function to distribute the winnings more widely as more people would feel motivated to enter…

              oilreg I gave you a suggestion.

              If you choose to dismiss it as not meaningful, that is your choice.

              • I have 50 sOhm and invest in the pool.

              • The remainder of the pool is 50 individuals each investing 1 sOhm.

              • I have a 50% chance of winning.

              • Each of the individuals has a 1% chance of winning.

              • The prize for the pool is 100 sOhm.

              • If the individuals group their entries and enter as a block of 50, then their block has a 50% chance of winning.

              • If I win, I win 100 sOhm. If the block wins, they win 100 sOhm. Each person in the block wins 2 sOhm.

              • This maintains the risk v reward of the pool while also allowing leverage for smaller contributors to win proportional to their risk.

              • This has the added benefit of not being exclusionary.

              oilreg I'm done with this. You do not want a discussion. You want to have your way and dismiss any alternate opinions as meaningless. Exclusionary behavior is permeating.

              oilreg exploiting the system if you are a whale

              oilreg ou really think the 1000 33T Whale has a life changing event when he wins 170 sOhm

              oilreg i assume its life changing when a guy staking with 1 33T wins 100 sOHM

              oilreg i am talking about exploiting the system if you are a whale

              oilreg he is exploiting the system

              oilreg we would appreciate if you contribute meaningful suggestions

              These are judgmental statements.

              Turbohand I have 50 sOhm and invest in the pool.
              The remainder of the pool is 50 individuals each investing 1 sOhm.
              I have a 50% chance of winning.
              Each of the individuals has a 1% chance of winning.
              The prize for the pool is 100 sOhm.
              If the individuals group their entries and enter as a block of 50, then their block has a 50% chance of winning.
              If I win, I win 100 sOhm. If the block wins, they win 100 sOhm. Each person in the block wins 2 sOhm.
              This maintains the risk v reward of the pool while also allowing leverage for smaller contributors to win proportional to their risk.
              This has the added benefit of not being exclusionary.

              This is not.

                Turbohand Good job defending the protocol, but I feel it unnecessary to resort to personal attacks and critiques om ones perspective or communication style. The point is if I'm here starting some hogwash "new way" of doing things that are "fair" and "transparent" then onboarding isn't some whales smoking the little guys in some fake lottery pool. A lottery is supposed to suck for everyone. There is supposed to be no way to game with size of buy-in. If you are in a lottery where the winners have concentration then the whales are just sharing your contribution each epoch and you are an idiot for investing in the game. Game theory. Its in the white paper. Some people won't like that and will complain. Makes sense.

                  TronderJJ Please show me where I personally attacked anyone? I presented a system that also addresses your concerns and remains inclusive.

                  In a regular lottery, I can buy more tickets than anyone else if I have the money. That will increase my chance to win. It also increases the impact of my loss. The same is true here.

                  Inclusiveness and collaboration, as with most things, can solve this problem.

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