As part of the staking upgrade outlined in OIP-6 and implemented two weeks ago with the staking migration, staking can have a warmup period. I would like to start the discussion on what that warmup is, and when it should be introduced.

What is the warmup?
The warmup period is a number of epochs before a staker can take their sOHM. If the staker withdraws before the end of their warmup, they will receive back only the OHM they staked (no rewards). If the staker withdraws after the end of their warmup, they will receive their sOHM including all rewards.

Stakers still earn during the warmup, they simply cannot take the rewards until it has ended. So, it acts as a filter on staking for less than some amount of time. If you don't make it through the entire warmup, you do not earn any rewards.

What is the warmup currently?
The warmup is set to 0 right now. This is why staking works similar to how it always has; you stake and receive sOHM at the same time. If/when it is introduced, you will stake at one epoch and claim your sOHM at another epoch.

What should the warmup be?
This is the question I would like to answer. I will list some ranges as a poll and we can start to dig in to what the warmup should be. Note that the warmup period is measured in epochs, and an epoch is approximately 8 hours.

When should we introduce the warmup?
This is another question we need to answer. I imagine comments to this proposal will be telling in terms of how eager community members are to see this introduced.

What are the benefits of the warmup?

  • Withholds rewards from ultra-short term stakers
  • Enables Hades with staking (stake with one address and claim with another)

What are the downsides of the warmup?

  • Must forfeit rewards if unstaking too quickly
  • An extra transaction (but not a time-sensitive transaction - do it whenever, it does not effect reward accrual)

How Long Should Warmup Be?

    Let's do it at least a week and let's do it ASAP, would be a great start for locked staking.

    I think it's a risky path to take, so we should tread carefully, to avoid creating new issues down the road.

    I understand where it's coming from, though. No doubt about that, but I think locked stacking solves a part of that issue. We could even consider exponential rewards that resets proportionally when unstaking.

    But a fixed warm up period is something I'd very careful implementing.

    I think it'll also put a higher entry barrier on Olympus, since you're not "instantly" a 3,3. A lot of new ohmies love seeing those juicy rewards, and I'm not sure how many actually unstake within the first days? We could run some analysis on that to see how much effect implementing the warm up period would actually have.

    And I'm unsure about protocol integrations, but introducing an opinionated fixed X day warm up period might make it more complex (even incompatible with some protocols).

      21 epochs from my POV is fair, let's do it ASAP to eliminate short term profit takers parasiting on (3, 3) players

        This functionality was intended to be up at the beginning of the project for certain reasons it was not implemented, there was only a 1 or 2 epoch warmup planned if i remember right, imo would be enough for the start. Im advocating to start this asap

          hodlmao I don't think new ohmies should wait 7 days until they receive their first rebase. That feeling of buying OHM, staking and seeing those juicy rebases the first few days is a huge driver behind the loyalty in the community.

          And the real short term profit takers are those that buy for $100k, get rebase and sell instantly.

          The average new ohmies don't get profits enough to cover gas costs the first few days anyway, so they're not the issue.

              Agreed on the 21 epoch warmup. 7 days should eliminate some parasitic behavior without being too long of a wait.

              andrewlias The new holder is still receiving rebases, they just forfeit rewards if they un-stake during the warmup. I do see what you're saying though... maybe if we can implement something in the UI that shows the unvested rewards during the warmup period.

                I'm a new Ohmie just diving into learing about the project and with a rather small 1 OHM staked. I think a warmup between 3-7 days makes sense. And since it doesn't lock you in should not preclude newbies joining 3,3. It is nice to see the componding each epoch, though I recognize that eventually the goal is to approach a much lower price per OHM. It just holds out the potential for a person with a small bag (like myself) to actually participate in the protocol overtime.

                Zeus this is an excellent proposal. Love the clarity with which you write. I think showing stakers their accrued but unearned rewards during warm up period in the app will be important.

                  Good proposal but gas fees on eth put me off defi til Polygon came along. With Olympus this is negated due to 3,3 - although the pain of spending gas to claim adds an extra burden of cost and also time.

                  I believe this needs to be implemented as soon as possible. 4 to 9 epochs will be my preferred wait period. Showing earned rewards and time before they can be claimed will make for a good user experience.

                  my two cents, I think the locked staking idea makes this idea less attractive, since they're kind of both after the same intention, (aren't they?). cumulatively they could have some bad effects we're not seeing as of now. i think if anything, the warmup period should be for 3 epochs or less.

                  Hey guys, this is meant to be a warm-up not locked staking already. Are you kidding with any warm-up longer that 1-3 days?!

                  Love the ohmies feedback (I'm new here! Hey everyone!). I feel this proposal would make more sense if we looked at tiers versus a standard/more broad approach. The challenge is to solve for ultra-short term stakers (USTS). To address the issue, we would need further insight into how often USTS are coming in taking profits and leaving and then at what size does this negatively affect future rewards for future ohmies. Is there a definitive difference in USTS and stakers who simply liquidate and run following 3 days? Tough to answer... It may be worth thinking through size instead of duration. A USTS with $1k doesn't benefit on an absolute basis as much as someone with let's say $100k.

                  Ideas:
                  We could introduce tiered warmups based on size (ex. $10k+ 5 day lock, 100k+ 7 day lock, etc.)
                  Introduce tiered warmups based on size and reward (ex. $100k+ grants 25% of rebase days 1-3, 50% days 3-6, 75% days 7-10, and 100% in days 11 onward)

                  Questions:
                  Does size or length matter more? (pun intended)
                  If length only, what length of warmup would actually deter an USTS?

                  andrewlias I agree, is ultra short term staking currently an issue? How many often do people stake for less than a week? We should probably collect some data before implementing this.

                    Wanted to check if we have some data related to what's the number of users who currently stake for ultra-short period and then unstake.

                      andrewlias There might be some misunderstanding, I understood that INSTANTLY upon staking I am 3,3 (rebase in effect - juicy rewards being delivered), just that there are a number of epochs prior to your ability to unstake.

                      Question - I have 500 OHM, I add 50 more to my stack, is my entire (550) stack now in warm-up period or just the 50 or can I unstake the 550 in its entirety immediately?

                        Doesn’t make sense unless we really have a problem with ultra short term profit takers. Even then, the market will efficiantly adjust pricing of ohm until one cannot take profits from such a move (0.005% oscillation in ohm price every 8 hours).

                        Prices of equities/bonds increase gradually before dividends or interest payments and decrease immediately after.

                        Ex. a 5% dividend payment results in a 5% stock price decrease. This makes it impossible to profit by buying stocks right before dividends, cashing the dividend, and selling the stocks. I imagine the same will happen with ohm over the long term.

                        I also struggle to understand how this is harming (3,3) stakers? If anything a market sell of ohm drives down prices (momentarily) and allows for ohmies to enter at lower prices. Let the market find equillibrium without creating barriers for new ohmies to successfully enter into the ecosystem.

                        Any first time ohmie understands that the protocol has a pyramid scheme sounding (albeit with a reserve + backing) design to it. It would be interesting to note how many ohmies would feel hesitant to stake given that they know they’re exposed to significant downside (without rebase) in the ultra short term.