who are the team members leading this? there has been way too many OHM fork rugs recently
Support Ohmieswap
Can't help but express some concern about how this reflects on our attitudde towards our longest-standing partner, sushiswap.
As we get big enough, are we just going to eat into our partners verticals? OHM-X pools can happen through Sushi and I don't see a need for a separate AMM and token.
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Sasp i feel the same way, is there a way to work together with sushi instead of another dex fork?
Another note on leverage: have we so quickly forgotten about 0xbaeb? kek
ChefOmi ChefOmi sounds too much like Chef Nomi, which scares me in all sorts of unexpected ways.
Fully support, wen discord ser
I love the enthusiasm & could see myself getting behind this IF we could do this in a way that didn't create a war with Sushi. I think it would be a stronger proposal if it created/cemented a partnership with sushi in some way similar to how we have been encouraging forks to contribute to the Olympus Ecosystem & own OHM in their treasuries
Very well thought posts voicing concern, I add mine to them. We are better than this, we deserve better than this.
No.
Wartull Sushi was one of our very first supporters. They've hosted us several times in their discord for their their open mics/AMAs. They set the precedent that LPs for treasuries still get incentivized (maybe less than individual LPs). There is just general goodwill between the two communities.
This feels like if one of our Olympus Pro partners, after us having supported their launch post-pool2, went ahead and created their own bonding program. Sure, they will gain more, but they'll lose out in goodwill.
I honestly don't follow this narrative. We bring far more to the table at Sushi than they have ever given us. Two community events do not change that. At certain days we account for almost 50% of the volume and fees, yet we still get a relatively small amount of Sushi in Onsen. Also the previous Onsen increase was because we won a community vote, not out of goodwill.
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I'm really happy to see so much excitement around the concept here. I'd like to take this opportunity to address some of the questions regarding Sushi and explain why we believe Ohmieswap is the right next step for the Ohmies:
First, I'd like to state that we have immense respect for Sushi. Sushi has been a great supportive entity for projects trying to find their footing in the past year. Olympus is one of many examples of successful projects brought up on their exchange. Unfortunately, they simply are not structured for long term success, at least as a V2 AMM.
Almost the entire supply of the network has already been distributed, yet the network has not accrued any real long-term defensible value. The incentivized sushi LP is a mercenary -- we all know this. It seems like Olympus has already done far more for them than anyone else. If you run the numbers, Olympus is actually the closest to breakeven for them (incentive expense / fee revenue) of any project on their exchange by a large margin.
It appears that Ohmies will always be contributing more than the upside they receive. It is, at its root, a free-rider problem. One lesson we have learned from OlympusDAO's success is to remain hyper-focused on accruing value to the network from day one. Minimize free riders and maximize value adds. This is why we believe Ohmieswap is necessary.
We put in our time. We believe it is time to say a wistful goodbye.
That said, this entire project is contingent on your support. What the Ohmies say, goes. So, we can offer an alternative:
We can build the Kitchen on top of Sushiswap. The functionality will be the same. However, there are some tradeoffs. 1) Olympus will never earn a significant stake in its DEX. The most we can hope for on SUSHI is 1% if we are lucky. On Ohmieswap, we expect it to be 20-40%. 2) Liquidity fees still go to Sushi. This means that free-rider problem persists, and our ability to incentivize $OHM liquidity is reduced. 3) Given how entrenched ETH is on Sushi, OHM is unlikely to serve as a router token to any significant degree.
I believe that, no matter what happens, Sushi can thrive in new verticals like NFTs which we have little interest in. We are not looking to create a zero-sum environment, we believe this simply makes sense. The biggest questions here seem to be: how much do we value continued utilization of Sushiswap? do we owe them that utilization? how much does they value us?
Nonetheless, we look forward to continuing the conversation and proceeding as the community sees fit.
I don't support this with the current implementation. I do believe Olympus should have its own AMM, but this feels off to me.
Since Olympus seeks to be a reserve currency, instead of OSX, it should only pay fees in OHM. In addition, for Olympus to have a huge impact on the DEX market, it should have much lower fees. Since we won't need mercenary capital (IE, most bonds will be used to bootstrap a liquidity pool), the fees should be half of sushi/uniswap or even less. My first target would be .15%. This is the key, lower fees on swaps will drive market acceptance vs any other incentive.
Kitchen is a great take on additional liquidity but we've already seen bonds effectively negate the need for incentivized LPs. OHM/ETH launched with no incentives at all and it has done very well. My spin on kitchen would be more similar to 3,3 Together. Special 'Liquidity Incentives' would allow Ohmies to redirect some sOHM for a limited time, then the rewards would be used to boostrap something, with reward incentives (in a different token) being returned to the sOhm owner, along with their original sOhm.
I would love to see this Dex launch (call it 'Mercatus' or something instead) but I think the long term approach for most benefits for Olympus itself should be hashed out, so we can really nail what we need.
Wartull I consider Onsen a bonus to our amazing project. I don't believe Sushi/Uni provide enough value as a token to replicate them as OSX. Olympus' fees and liquidity are the important part, and Sushi has helped there for visibility for sure.
Plus they put Olympus as a common base, which goes pretty far in my mind.
Speaking as a community member here: I think it is important for us to know more about who is behind this project so that we are better able to judge if they really are long term aligned with us. Would it make sense to have a community call to discuss this ? Do you have anything to propose ? Right now, the deal looks like we're expected to trade:
- Our liquidity (100s of M$)
- Our relationship with Sushi which, while not compensating us adequately, does provide support and new developments (trident etc.)
For:
- A fork of sushi v2 with a few tweaks operated by a 1 day old account
Now, I like the idea of having more governance power over our infrastructure (sushi so far has been pretty cold feet …). But why are we expected to believe that you wont rug us the second we give you anything, and assuming that you don't just run with the money, that you will stay aligned with ohm long term instead of just using the ohmies as a boostrapping mechanism and then ditch us ?
There's a new rug happening every week, the main issue for me with this isn't code or functionalities, it's trust.
Pretty surprised by all of the push back on this, specifically related to us "burning" our relationship with Sushi. We've never had a formal partnership with them and guest speaking on a couple Discord calls is not that, so I'm having trouble following why we owe them anything (and I don't mean that negatively, I'm a fan of Sushi). IMO, this is a rational next step. We make up a significant amount of Sushi's TVL and daily volume and have lost out on millions of dollars $of fees under the current structure. I'd argue this, if executed well, is significantly more value accretive than Olympus Pro which has gotten a ton of praise in the last month or two. While OLP has earned 300-400k in fees in a little over a month, we would be earning multiples of that amount per day just off trading fees. And this doesn't take into account a built-in leverage option whereby the protocol takes a portion of every rebase (and I'm sure I'm missing several other incremental revenue opps that I'm too smol brain to come up with).$
On a more critical note, I do echo many others' sentiment of wanting to learn more about the team leading this project. Is the Ohmieswap team comprised of longtime DAO contributors? If not, do any DAO members have relationships with the Ohmieswap team? While it seems like many in the DAO were aware this was in the works and general consensus from known DAO contributors seems to be in support, it would be nice to get more background.
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Questions:
1. Who is @ChefOmi? Never heard of them until a few hours ago. Is this being backed by core DAO team members as some type of stealth operation?
2. I understand that people are feeling that Sushi gets more from OHM than it gives back. However, this proposal, as written leaves a lot to be desired, for example:
-Where is the liquidity going to come from? How will it be incentivized?
-Does the team have the expertise and experience to run a DEX? It's about a lot more than just forking a protocol and calling it a day
-Why burn the bridge with Sushi? They have added OHM as a key routing pair, and seem pretty supportive. This move feels exploitative and is exactly the type of behavior I hear frowned upon when others do it to Olympus. Not a good look.
-What does this say to others looking to partner with Olympus in the future? We'll ride you until we're done and then turn around and say "screw you, bye, bye? Not a good look or stance
I echo others' concerns about this proposal. Who is this team? What are the guarantees? What does support look like? Isn't this just a marketing stunt to say this is connected to Olympus and then it's "bye-bye"
With a project started under these strange circumstances, it's hard to trust that this is a legitimate proposal being put forth by people who can actually do the job. Instead it feels like a hit and run operation to bootstrap a proposal with dubious motives and intent off the Olympus brand and community.
If they want to run a project like this, maybe lower the expectations and enter the Olympus launchpad project (if passed).
Iceman to address these:
fees are not taken in OSX. The fee model (which sushi uses) works as follows:
a) User adds tokens for 1 OLP.
b) 0.0005 OLP are sent to Ohmieswap. (0.05%)
c) 0.9995 OLP are sent to user.
d) OLP sent to Ohmieswap is removed, the OHM is converted into OSX, and the OSX is given to xOSX stakers.
Under the current setup with sushi, the LP is removed, the OHM is converted into DAI, DAI into ETH, ETH into SUSHI, and SUSHI to xSUSHI. Under ours, everything remains OHM (since our market trades against OHM, we don't have to sell it for DAI/ETH to buy our token).
Lowering the trading fee does not make sense in our opinion. The exchange takes its fee when liquidity is added. Any reduction to trading fees comes out of Olympus' pocket, not ours.
We believe that the Kitchen can exponentially increase Olympus liquidity. Bonds are great but they take time to bootstrap and they are more capital intensive. Together, we think the two will be a force to be reckoned with!
Your "spin" is how it works
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- Long time ohmie but yes it is a new account. I did speak with several members of the DAO prior to this proposal though. We even have a custom channel for Ohmieswap
- The liquidity will primarily come from the Olympus treasury and Kitchen cooks. Both are incentivized with OSX. We have experience in several projects as well as the DAO, but intend to maintain anonymity from our other anons
Appreciate the suggestion at the end, we would love to build trust and reputation in the community and perhaps a slower go-to-market would be better with that in mind. I will continue to respond to comments/concerns and it would be great to hear more thoughts in this regard.