Olympus DEX sure, but another sushi fork, no please.

I posted this in the ideas channel in the Discord server but reposting here for visibility:

I'm hoping the underlying liquidity pools will stay on SUSHI/UNI and that Ohmieswap just builds on top of that, enabling and incentivizing OHM-based LP pairs to be created and staked on Ohmieswap. I think if you are actually trying to establish your own liquidity pools, Ohmieswap becomes its own AMM DEX which is just adding onto an already diluted landscape of DEXes in DeFi. Even if the innovation is OHM-pairs in this case, with OSX rewards, and xOSX revenue share. I would love to see integration with existing Dexes over domination / competition. Thats what the DeFi 2.0 narrative is all about. Building on top of the ecosystem rather than forking and tweaking.

I'm all for innovation but I want to hear from Zeus and Wartull 1st and get their thoughts. At 1st glance this seems like we are becoming like Danielle from TIME and stab anyone in the back in the race to the top when we really don't need to do that at all. DEX sounds interesting but Let's make it out of EXPANSION mode 1st and execute

things are starting to feel scammy around here lately

I agree that by forking sushiswap we have more freedom to adjust fees, route and other parameters. Probably we could collaborate with sushiswap just like how we provide Olympus pro as a service to other projects. In this way they have a stake in us and could provide support to us as well.

Will OHM treasury grow from this as well from swap fees then? Or only the newly created token?

who are the team members leading this? there has been way too many OHM fork rugs recently

Can't help but express some concern about how this reflects on our attitudde towards our longest-standing partner, sushiswap.

As we get big enough, are we just going to eat into our partners verticals? OHM-X pools can happen through Sushi and I don't see a need for a separate AMM and token.

    Sasp i feel the same way, is there a way to work together with sushi instead of another dex fork?

    Another note on leverage: have we so quickly forgotten about 0xbaeb? kek

      ChefOmi ChefOmi sounds too much like Chef Nomi, which scares me in all sorts of unexpected ways.

        Fully support, wen discord ser

        I love the enthusiasm & could see myself getting behind this IF we could do this in a way that didn't create a war with Sushi. I think it would be a stronger proposal if it created/cemented a partnership with sushi in some way similar to how we have been encouraging forks to contribute to the Olympus Ecosystem & own OHM in their treasuries

        Very well thought posts voicing concern, I add mine to them. We are better than this, we deserve better than this.

        No.

        Sasp Can you explain what exactly we get out of the Sushiswap partnership?

        • Sasp replied to this.

            Wartull Sushi was one of our very first supporters. They've hosted us several times in their discord for their their open mics/AMAs. They set the precedent that LPs for treasuries still get incentivized (maybe less than individual LPs). There is just general goodwill between the two communities.

            This feels like if one of our Olympus Pro partners, after us having supported their launch post-pool2, went ahead and created their own bonding program. Sure, they will gain more, but they'll lose out in goodwill.

                Sasp

                I honestly don't follow this narrative. We bring far more to the table at Sushi than they have ever given us. Two community events do not change that. At certain days we account for almost 50% of the volume and fees, yet we still get a relatively small amount of Sushi in Onsen. Also the previous Onsen increase was because we won a community vote, not out of goodwill.

                    Wartull Apologies, we meant 'is Ohmieswap gmi/ngmi', not 'is the voter'

                    update: I am unable to edit the poll.

                      I'm really happy to see so much excitement around the concept here. I'd like to take this opportunity to address some of the questions regarding Sushi and explain why we believe Ohmieswap is the right next step for the Ohmies:

                      First, I'd like to state that we have immense respect for Sushi. Sushi has been a great supportive entity for projects trying to find their footing in the past year. Olympus is one of many examples of successful projects brought up on their exchange. Unfortunately, they simply are not structured for long term success, at least as a V2 AMM.

                      Almost the entire supply of the network has already been distributed, yet the network has not accrued any real long-term defensible value. The incentivized sushi LP is a mercenary -- we all know this. It seems like Olympus has already done far more for them than anyone else. If you run the numbers, Olympus is actually the closest to breakeven for them (incentive expense / fee revenue) of any project on their exchange by a large margin.

                      It appears that Ohmies will always be contributing more than the upside they receive. It is, at its root, a free-rider problem. One lesson we have learned from OlympusDAO's success is to remain hyper-focused on accruing value to the network from day one. Minimize free riders and maximize value adds. This is why we believe Ohmieswap is necessary.

                      We put in our time. We believe it is time to say a wistful goodbye.

                      That said, this entire project is contingent on your support. What the Ohmies say, goes. So, we can offer an alternative:

                      We can build the Kitchen on top of Sushiswap. The functionality will be the same. However, there are some tradeoffs. 1) Olympus will never earn a significant stake in its DEX. The most we can hope for on SUSHI is 1% if we are lucky. On Ohmieswap, we expect it to be 20-40%. 2) Liquidity fees still go to Sushi. This means that free-rider problem persists, and our ability to incentivize $OHM liquidity is reduced. 3) Given how entrenched ETH is on Sushi, OHM is unlikely to serve as a router token to any significant degree.

                      I believe that, no matter what happens, Sushi can thrive in new verticals like NFTs which we have little interest in. We are not looking to create a zero-sum environment, we believe this simply makes sense. The biggest questions here seem to be: how much do we value continued utilization of Sushiswap? do we owe them that utilization? how much does they value us?

                      Nonetheless, we look forward to continuing the conversation and proceeding as the community sees fit.

                      • _mp_ replied to this.

                        I don't support this with the current implementation. I do believe Olympus should have its own AMM, but this feels off to me.

                        Since Olympus seeks to be a reserve currency, instead of OSX, it should only pay fees in OHM. In addition, for Olympus to have a huge impact on the DEX market, it should have much lower fees. Since we won't need mercenary capital (IE, most bonds will be used to bootstrap a liquidity pool), the fees should be half of sushi/uniswap or even less. My first target would be .15%. This is the key, lower fees on swaps will drive market acceptance vs any other incentive.

                        Kitchen is a great take on additional liquidity but we've already seen bonds effectively negate the need for incentivized LPs. OHM/ETH launched with no incentives at all and it has done very well. My spin on kitchen would be more similar to 3,3 Together. Special 'Liquidity Incentives' would allow Ohmies to redirect some sOHM for a limited time, then the rewards would be used to boostrap something, with reward incentives (in a different token) being returned to the sOhm owner, along with their original sOhm.

                        I would love to see this Dex launch (call it 'Mercatus' or something instead) but I think the long term approach for most benefits for Olympus itself should be hashed out, so we can really nail what we need.